Pinny

Oh, my God. I just want this to be over so I can go shake ass.

Johnathon

That's what you're doing after this?

Pinny

Quote Me!

Johnathon

Oh, baby, she's rolling. She's recording. So that's the plan after? Shaking ass?

Pinny

Yeah.

*struggles to set up equipment*

Pinny

Here I got you, baby girl

Johnathon

Yeah, okay, so who am I with right now?

Pinny

You are with Pinny, Yaowaratana

Johnathon

Period. And what do you do, Pinny?

Pinny

Um, I do Men's wear at the London College of Fashion. I'm a designer, a creative- That's kind of cringe, but like, yeah, um. I make art.

Johnathon

Nice.

Pinny

Oh! And I'm from Thailand.

Johnathon

Period. What would you say got you into fashion? What are your inspirations? Where do you draw from?

Pinny

Yeah, okay. So initially, in high school, I was really into fine art, and I think I thought that I wanted to go into that.

Johnathon

Like drawing?

Pinny

Like paintings, drawing, sculpture. I think what got me into it is because my parents aren't creative. They just have their own businesses and do like cardboard and packaging and stuff, which is cool. But I've always been drawn to art and the more creative side of things. I think that I'm a very "feeling" person, right?

Johnathon

Yeah.

Pinny

Even though I, like, try to pretend nowadays that I'm super chill and, you know-

Johnathon

Nonchalant baddie!

Pinny

Yes! Like nonchalant. Like, I don't give a fuck, but in reality, I've always been such a sensitive kid. So I feel things very deeply. And I think art was like an outlet for that, like to process things. So in high school, I was doing more of that, like exploring my emotions through art. And as I've grown up, now in Uni, and now that I've moved abroad, I'm exploring more of my experiences and current situations in my life. But to get back to the first question, probably art. A mix of that, the women in my life and my family. When I was younger, I know it's super cliche, but watching your mom get ready and stuff. I was like, wow, like, she's so beautiful, she looks so powerful. And it's kind of like taking control of how you present yourself and how you can be seen to the world. The woman is seen as less powerful. You know? And both of my grandmas are fashionistas. They dressed up. So that really inspired me and subconsciously influenced me to go into fashion. When I was really, really young, and we were playing pretend, I would pretend to work in an office and draw clothes. And then I was like, "oh, no!" I don't want to do fashion because I knew it was risky. But in the end, when I applied to Uni, I applied to the Central St. Martin's Foundation, I got in, and they let us try every pathway, and then when I tried fashion, that was like, yeah, I think this is it.

Johnathon

So going back to talking about art, how were you inspired by fine arts and just the arts growing up? What's the art scene like in Thailand?

Pinny

Um. I actually don't know if I can speak a lot about it, because I wasn't fully immersed in the world since I was in high school. But I would say there are a lot of creatives in Thailand, especially now. Art is becoming more accepted, and there's so many more young, creative designers who are making clothes that are experimental rather than, like, mainstream. And I think the queer community is also a very big part of Bangkok and Thailand. I think they also express art in their own way in terms of their clothing or how they present themselves and stuff like that. But in the art scene, I'm not sure.

Johnathon

So like the culture-

In unison: influences, the art.

Johnathon

I love that.

Pinny

But I do have to say that in Bangkok, like- There's one less diverse way of being beautiful. As in "oh, super pale skin, long straight hair, super skinny, double eyelid" that's considered to be beautiful. That's the standard. Especially with people who are less exposed to Western media or don't have the opportunity to explore other cultures. They would think that that's the only way of being beautiful, and I think that's causing a lot of harm to our culture and how girls and women see themselves. Or just like that idea of beauty, as a whole.

Johnathon

Yeah.

Pinny

Yes.

Johnathon

So, I know you talked about how the queer scene inspires a lot of art and culture within Thailand. What are some other inspirations you pull from in your art?

Pinny

Yeah, of course. So in high school, I was thinking about the different phases of my life, and I was excited to see what in the next phase of my life I'd get inspired by. But at the end of high school, I'm like, "okay, I'm, leaving high school." So I'm thinking about when I was younger because I'm going to move abroad. So I'm taking a lot of inspiration from memories and nostalgia, and that kind of continues in my work.

Johnathon

It fuels everything you do.

Pinny

Yeah. So, for my collection right now, the story of the Ugly Duckling was the initial point. Because you know it's a classic childhood story, like everybody knows it. right? Being in London for four years and changing so much as a person and going from speaking Thai every day to speaking English 24 seven, going weeks without speaking my first language. Even though I do speak English at home, it's not the same, you know? So that kind of made me question a lot of things, and not knowing many Thai people here, not seeing them so often, I was feeling like that part of myself faded away. So, it made me question, you know, that sense of home, how do we keep our culture while being abroad? How do we keep that sense of home? And that's the concept basically for my collection. I wanted to bring a lot of things like my heritage and what I find interesting or beautiful in my culture. My mom, we're Buddhists, and my mom is very- Um, yeah, she's very, like, religious in some aspects. Like, she believes in angels and meditation and stuff. So I've always been taught that, and in the religion, there's the seven levels of heaven, and in one of the levels, there is a forest called the Himmapan forest, and they have a lot of mythical creatures, like very beautiful creatures. But you basically die, and you become one of them or something. And one of them is called Kinnari, which are like, half human, half swan being and they're really beautiful, and that kind of links to the ugly duckling. So I took some inspiration from that, too.

Johnathon

Nice. So just kind of interweaving everything.

Pinny

Yeah, kind of like bringing just what's me and who am I? Kind of situation.

Johnathon

Love that. I'm, like, losing my questions... No, no, no, no, no. Yeah, okay yeah. Something that popped in my head earlier, when you were talking about back in Thailand, people aren't exposed to a lot of Western trends and Western pop culture, but were you growing up? Like, exposed to that?

Pinny

Oh, yeah. Like Western media?

Johnathon

Yeah, Western media.

Pinny

Well, I went to a Thai school until I was like in year six, but before that, I wasn't really like- You know, like social media wasn't really like popping off and stuff. So I wasn't that exposed to it-

Johnathon

Oh, wait, you said year six. Sorry. I was thinking of age six. I was like well, also, that's pretty young-

Pinny

Like, you couldn't read.

Johnathon

Yeah. Year six? your-

In unison: 12.

Johnathon

Ayyyyyyye

Pinny

Yeah year six, I went to an international school, and then we got cable in our home, and I started watching Nickelodeon and Disney Channel, and stuff like that. I couldn't really understand what they were saying, but I got the vibes, you know, I laughed at what they laughed.

Johnathon

You were like wait there's something there.

Pinny

Yeah so that got me more interested in it and I was like, oh, wait, this is so fun. Like, this is like a different language, a different culture, a different world. Then, being in an international school, I got more exposed to non-Thai people. So I learned more from that and then from my peers and my teachers, and then as I grew up, social media and other stuff like that. And I had more international friends. And then I was like, I kind of want to be somewhere BIGGER.

Johnathon

Yeah.

Pinny

You know, I wanted to be in a big city where everyone comes from everywhere, so I can learn from everyone. And so when I got to London, I was like, yeah, this place is for me, you know?

Johnathon

Off topic. Well, what's your sign?

Pinny

GUESS!

Johnathon

No, because you're over here talking, and I'm like, oh- just so relatable. Like, okay, I'm an Aquarius.

Pinny

I'm not Aquarius.

Johnathon

You're not an Aquarius? This is hard. Did you just have a birthday?

Johnathon

No you didn't. Maybe? Did you? No. Okay, wait, I need a hint. Are you, like, an air sign, a water sign, an Earth sign

Johnathon

Air. Air? Ohhhhhh.

Pinny

Are you good with signs?

Johnathon

I mean, kind of.

Pinny

Well, like, I'm very emotional, I'm, like-

Johnathon

Are you a Pisces?

Pinny

No.

Johnathon

No, that's water.

Pinny

I'm not emotional like that, but I'm, like, very romantic and very, like-

Johnathon

Are you a cancer?

Pinny

No.

Johnathon

No. Am I getting close? wait - That's not even-

Pinny

BITCH I SAID AIR.

Johnathon

And I was like, are you an air sign? Me thinking I know what the other airs are. Apparently, I don't.

Pinny

I'm a Libra.

Johnathon

Libra?

Pinny

Yeah.

Johnathon

That's August, right? August, September?

Pinny

OCTOBER!

*Laughs*

Johnathon

But there are Libras in August.

Pinny

No, bitch.

Johnathon

No?

Pinny

September. It's September, October.

Johnathon

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, okay. When's your birthday?

Pinny

Seven.

Johnathon

September 7?

Pinny

No! October 7th.

Johnathon

OK! Moving on- me thinking I'm a down-to-earth astrology girlie… I guess not.

Pinny

Like, "what's your sign? I can guess."

Johnathon

Literally goes through the whole list. Wait, do you know your big three?

Pinny

Yeah, I do. Okay,

Johnathon

What is it? I'm not guessing this time, just so we're clear.

Pinny

Libra sun.

Johnathon

Okay.

Pinny

Libra MOON, I know a lot of Libras. and Sagittarius rising.

Johnathon

I would have never guessed any of that. Maybe I don't know astrology …

Pinny

A lot of people can guess. Not to put you on blast, but, like-

Johnathon

Big Libra energy.

Pinny

BIG LIBRA! You know that Jenna Ortega video?

Johnathon

Ok, but yeah, I'm an Aquarius Sun

Pinny

Niceeeee

Johnathon

Scorpio rising….And, um, a Gemini moon.

Pinny

Ok, Gemini moon

Johnathon

I know, Crazy.

Pinny

Yeah. BIG GEMENI!.

Johnathon

Right. Just a mix of insanity. Moving on, though. So I know we talked about kind of where you are in fashion now and your collection. But what's the goal in fashion? Obviously, you're in menswear right now, but do you want to be more of a designer? What does that look like? Put me in that world.

Pinny

Okay, ideally, I would have my own brand. That's, like, the goal because I love art and I love fashion. But I also grew up with business and marketing, my mom was like a salesperson. So she taught me a lot of stuff around that. They really influenced me, my parents. I'm also really interested in running a business and managing people. So I think having my own brand will fuel my passions, you know? I want to make clothes that are created in my own language for my own world. Which is kind of like mythical, edgy, and chic.

Johnathon

Yeah.

Pinny

I want people to feel sexy and expensive, but like, still fun, you know?

Johnathon

Yeah, but also not those rigid luxury items like that one silhouette.

Pinny

Yeah. I do want to get into the luxury market as well, but that's for later. I think that would be the goal, I just want to make clothes that are cute and make people feel good as well, you know? I think it's just like a great way to like show- It's very obvious, but it's like a way to show the world who you are. It's like, if clothes can make one person feel better or make someone feel like they've entered a different part of themselves, then like, great, you know? And like putting on a show and doing runways and stuff is just like a way to present your work and create a scene you know? It's kind of like a theater, like a production.

Johnathon

Do you think it's a lot of upcoming designers goals to run their own business or have their own brands? Or do you think it's like, "okay, I'm going into menswear" or "I'm working in women's wear" or "I just want to help a team design clothes"? What's the general consensus?

Pinny

Um, I think it depends on the person.

Johnathon

Yeah.

Pinny

Because a lot of people that I've talked to they just kind of want to work for a brand. Some people design to work for a brand, like "oh, my dream is to work for Schaperelli", for example, or like "my dream is to work for Prada" or whatever. But I think there's that concern of like- I think one of the questions you were asking about was like being a woman in the menswear market. I was thinking about that recently, where I definitely feel like it's something you don't hear of often because you hear a lot about men designing women's clothes.

Johnathon

Exactly.

Pinny

Yeah. So, like, for example, in the LVMH fashion brands and houses, literally almost all of the people who are creative directors are white men.

Johnathon

Yeah, which is odd because what culture are you moving?

Pinny

Exactly. And fashion is about culture most of the time. So whatever they bring in is like- I'm not like shading them because they're very talented, obviously. But if you look at the percentage of fashion people in fashion school, most of the people are either women, queer, or like POCs, right? But that percentage is so much higher than straight white men. Or like men in general. But in the real industry, most of the people who get to lead it are men. So I think it's kind of anxiety-inducing to a lot of people, especially for me as well. If most of the people who are running fashion are men, then what does my future look like?

Johnathon

Yeah.

Pinny

So, yeah, and then a lot of people also start their own brands as well, but the market is so saturated. So it's kind of a risk. Then it's, like, in a market that is so saturated, everybody's trying to be seen, get heard, make it essentially, and be different, there's nothing original anymore. So I think one thing that helped me is that nothing is original anymore, so might as well just do something that makes you feel good and feels like the most you. But one thing that I'm not a big fan of is when people start a brand, but they just buy plain T-shirts and print their logo on it. Because I feel like- It's like, give me a silhouette. Give me something! I don't know, it's just like, whats the point of that? And also, I think it's an environmental concern, what's the goal here? I mean, it's not wrong to want to make money, but I think it's that there are people in this course, for example, who work so hard on their craft and how they make clothes and we actually put so much thought and energy into it while not being seen at all. Like, no one knows about us. There are so many people I know who are super super talented, but they're not active on social media or they don't have a lot of followers, but their work is amazing, versus someone who just prints graphics on a t-shirt and then makes a lot of money. So it's also like, what's the goal here from both sides. What are we doing this for if we can just do that?

Johnathon

It's crazy because there's definitely a consumerism aspect of it all, I feel like in any creative field, whether it's music, fashion, or media, there's always that divide, whether you're doing something because you truly love it or you're doing something for notoriety and like the fame and there's always that clear division and clear disconnect, which is insane to me.

Pinny

It's just quite sad as well because a lot of people get into the industry and say "oh, I'm going to change it" but everyone ends up getting trapped in the fucking capitalism of it all. You know? It's just like the consumerism of it. People are so creative and then they get into the industry, and they're making all these crazy pieces of art but then they realize, "oh shit, I'm not making any money. And then its time to do ready-to-wear. It's always like that.

Johnathon

"I'm not making any money, time to get ready to wear."

*laughs*

Johnathon

Do you think having your own brand is, like, profitable? How do you not end up making ready-to-wear clothing? I feel like it's, like you said, you can get trapped there and end up having to make ready-to-wear clothing because that's what's selling, and you're like," I spent so much time and money and effort into this brand but my clothes are not selling. How do you beat that curse? Like, what are tips to beat the curse?

Pinny

I have no idea because I'm not there yetttt

Johnathon

When you get the circle back.

Pinny

Yeah, exactly. Do this interview again in 10 years…No! Five years.

Johnathon

Five years? We're breaking the curse of five years!

Pinny

I think that, I don't know- I think I'll just magically make it work, I guess.

Johnathon

Yeah.

Pinny

I don't know. I think I will continue to make pieces that I like and creative pieces. But my pieces aren't that crazy anyway. But I want to focus, in order to sell. Stuff like that is an important part of a business because you still need to make money. But at the end of the day, I want to make cute clothes and make people feel good. So, I don't know.

Johnathon

Like, value over profit?

Pinny

Maybe, I don't know. Maybe don't put this in. It makes me sound bad.

Johnathon

No, not even. Not even, not even. All right. So I know we talked a little bit about, like, behind the scenes in the industry, and how people need to get more notoriety and pushed to the front. But besides these things what else needs to change within the industry, like, fashion-related-wise, what do you want to see changed? First, menswear, and then just in general. There's always that argument. "We're tired of seeing men in a black suit, but then it's like, give us more then, give us more to wear than just that! So like, what do you want to see to change? Where do you see trends going?

Pinny

Well, one thing that I would love to see is a bigger range of diversity in creative directors and fashion houses, like, obviously, Pharrell is doing a great job, and I think he's bringing a lot of culture and his own vision to the brand. Didn't Sarah Burton just get, like, replaced at McQueen by Sean McGirr?

Johnathon

Yeah.

Pinny

Yeah. So, like, yeah, that's also another white man. I would love to see more people of color or like women run these big houses. I want to see what they can bring to these brands, these brands influence culture a lot. Obviously, fashion is very linked to culture and the current pop world as well. So I think if we get a chance to diversify everything, I think there will be more interesting things that we haven't seen before. I want to see what impact that will have on our culture as well.

Johnathon

Who are your favorite designers?

Pinny

That's a difficult one.

Johnathon

You can give me, like, five. You can give me, like, ten.

Pinny

Um... At the moment, at the moment, I do love JW Anderson.

Johnathon

Oh, me too. We can talk about this all day…We can talk about this all day because that's my favorite.

Pinny

You know, my tutor taught him. He was in my course.

Johnathon

What? *fangirling*....Yeah. Gagged, I love JW Anderson and Simon Porte for Jacquemus, ugh, love me some Jacquemus.

Pinny

Also, I just found out about this designer. I don't know if I'm late, but the person who did the Charlie XCX after party looked for the Met Gala.

Johnathon

Oh, wait. Yeah, I know what you're talking about. The one with the hat.

Pinny

Yeah. It was. I don't remember who it was. Why is my Wi-Fi not working? Um… But that person. Let's just pretend to insert his name. "Insert name here". (Javier Guijarro) Super talented. I love a good hand sewing moment.

Johnathon

Yeah.

Pinny

I would love to work for Kiko Kostadinov as well or like 16Arlington.

Johnathon

Nice.

Pinny

But we'll see.

Johnathon

That's crazy, you being in the same course as Jonathan Anderson.

Pinny

You know Connor lives?

Johnathon

Yeah.

Pinny

He was also on this course.

Johnathon

Insane. Clearly with the greats, Pinny next

Pinny

Me next pleasssse!

Johnathon

What would you say being here at UAL has taught you? What's your biggest takeaway? It doesn't have to be something you learned in the classroom. I mean a can, but it could also be something from, experience or from the people that you've met.

Pinny

Honestly, I applied to a lot of places, but I got into this course. At first, I was kind of upset that I didn't get to like the other course that I applied to. But I honestly feel like everything happens for a reason, I have learned so much, they really pushed us. It's very intense honestly. When I first came here, I barely knew how to sew, and now I'm like producing a whole collection three years later.

Johnathon

Really? How were your sewing skills when you came here?

Pinny

Like shit. I knew how to sew, just a straight line. That's pretty much it.

Johnathon

So you weren't, like, heming, you weren't doing pleats? And now you're making fucking pants, and pants are some of the hardest garments to make.

Pinny

No, like, I'm making jackets-

Johnathon

Oh? You said "I'm not just making pants"

*laughs*

Pinny

Like. No, get it right. Get it right. Get it right.

Pinny

No, but like, I think it's more just doing it a lot. Just being in the studio all the time asking the technician for help, learning from my friends, and I think everyone in this course is just as talented as everyone else. When everyone first came here, I think everybody was confused about what their style was and what they were doing, but, literally within the first couple of years, everyone kind of found their own vibe a bit more.

Johnathon

Yeah.

Pinny

And everyone's style is so different. And everyone's way of working is so different, even though we're around each other all the time. It's so inspiring because I'm like looking this way, and my friend is bespoke tailoring, his like fifth jacket, you know? like hand sewing everything and like I'm looking this way, and my friend is making a fucking rubber coat, and I'm looking this way, and like my friend is sewing a hat from scratch, you know? It's just so crazy how everyone and their upbringing and style is in their work. You can really see it in what they make. And I think that's really inspiring. It's just so nice to see everyone work so hard for what they are passionate about. I love human interaction and, like, emotions and experiences and stuff like that. I'm quite extroverted. I love being around people who use their creativity to fulfill their work, it gives me a really good energy. It's really inspiring. With a course that's so tough and requires so much time, effort and skill. I think it can be draining a lot of the time, like now, for example it's the last push and everyone's so tired, going on like three hours of sleep and stuff. Just seeing everyone doing it together and, like, laughing about how fucked up and how horrible this is just makes it a bit easier. And I'm excited to see where everyone ends up after we graduate. because I'm sure my friends will go very far.

Johnathon

Beautiful.